Golden Oxen's First Amendment Forum
Travel => Travel => Topic started by: Golden Oxen on April 29, 2014, 10:55:04 pm
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Topic added at the request of member Walter Johnson.
Thanks for your request and interest Walter, great idea.
Quote from: Golden Oxen on Today at 11:43:22 am
Always hoped to make a trip to see the pyramids before my stay in the pine box, guess it will have to be the Luxor in Las Vegas instead :'(
Good evening ladies and gentlemen. I had hoped to start a new topic from this quote asking where people would like to travel and why, or what their memorable travels have been and why. But alas, search as I tried to no avail, I could find no new topic button. Perhaps our gracious host would be so kind as to start such a topic?
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With wanderlust am I stricken friends. Not unreasonably so, I would settle for the continents I have not yet been and just once more through those I have. Distant skyscapes and landscapes, smells, tastes and sounds. The sensory **** of new and unknown-the excitement! Some day, some day I shall sail away. Mountains, jungles, forests, plains, before they are all to progress onward march. Are the great plains all covered in corn?
Where to begin with what I want to see, feel, taste and touch. Damn it I want all of it. The Great Wall of China, Himalayan Mountains, Stonehenge, The Amazon, and some of the stops on Man versus Food. Best burgers in the world you say? I'll decide that!
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Damn it I want all of it. The Great Wall of China, Himalayan Mountains, Stonehenge, The Amazon, and some of the stops on Man versus Food. Best burgers in the world you say? I'll decide that!
Hi Walter, while you certainly list places I would love to visit, Stonehenge would be my first choice if forced to pick. Those stones have always fascinated me. Really don't know why, drawn to look at them for some strange reason.
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Unfortunately my travelling companion, a younger relative looms large in the foreground. If you edit him out closing the left or right eye depending, using your imagination you get a glimpse of this iconic city.
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AOL2
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Sin city here I come
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Great pictures Walter. This one kicked off the day and made me laugh. An Industrious Panhandler, would be my title for it. What a hot ticket. :D
(http://goldenoxen.createaforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=17.0;attach=29;image)
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I was never much of a traveler, prefer local places I can reach by car. Never like flying, hate it actually, and now with the TSA, forget it.
Spent a lovely year of my life in Ulm Germany. A beautiful place when you learned to ignore the Nazi damage apparent. How I miss it. A postcard place with a beautiful cathedral which is the hallmark of the town. Their main claim to fame is it was the town where Albert Einstein was born.
Pictures are not mine. I took Kodachrome slides that have long been misplaced or faded. It is hard to believe it was almost fifty years ago.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Ulm_Donauschwabenufer1.jpg)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/blavel/pictures/5816/IMG_0737.JPG)
[imghttp://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/226/9/5/townhall_ulm_germany_hdr_by_gogo100878-d5b3y0d.jpg]http://[/img]
(http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/ba/46/02/fruchtrausch-ulm.jpg)
(http://www.prismma.in/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/ULM-7.jpg)
(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/226/9/5/townhall_ulm_germany_hdr_by_gogo100878-d5b3y0d.jpg)
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That foreboding German architectural style is distinctive, I once lived in a house of that flavour with a German lady who kept bees and pigeons. Over a feast of these same birds she waxed nostalgic in reminiscence of the glory days of Hitler, and needless to say I was taken aback by that novel perspective. I forget her name nowthough she was quite a character.
A disproportionately high number of brilliant Austrian Jews originated there in that epoch, Einstein being one of many in many fields such as Sigmund Freud the father of psychiatry, Wittgenstein, standard fare for philosophy students, music, theatre, science, culture and the arts magically flourished among them. I venture had you never drank of those waters, your apparent appreciation for the works of the Vienna School may never have flowered.
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(http://That foreboding German architectural style is distinctive)
Yes Walter, I noticed, or should I say felt it, as soon as I arrived. Something cold, geometric, mathematical about it that is difficult for me to explain.
They tell me Italy and Spain are the exact opposite of Germany.
(http://media.expedia.com/media/content/shared/images/travelguides/destination/179893/Florence-26736.jpg)
Florence
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Spain.Barcelona.Plaza.Catalunya.jpg)
Barcelona
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GO, I really like the Barcelona pic. The building architecture is like candy for my eyes. The statue in the center of the image very well represents my preference in a woman's shape...CURVY. Well done (http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/2thumbs.gif)
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I posit Botticelli inspired the vernacular Bootycalling. Someone or other sang; Jane Fonda hasn't got a motor in the back of her Honda.
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I posit Botticelli inspired the vernacular Bootycalling. Someone or other sang; Jane Fonda hasn't got a motor in the back of her Honda.
I have two lady friends that have been going to Spain every single year for the last 25. They went once together and said it was the most beautiful place ever, and eagerly plan a return visit every year, which I always thought was unusual, but quite a testament to Spain as a travel destination.
Even after their obvious love and praise of Spain, Italy would be my first choice if I were to take a trip to Europe. Rome, The Vatican, the Italian wine and food would not doubt appeal to me. I would love to see Florence and Venice, very attracted to them from pictures. London another on my wish list, but for some reason, no real desire to visit Spain, although I am sure I wouldn't mind it.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/__5oFE11MvK8/TCSXQ8uX-KI/AAAAAAAAGJI/eaacbP9MLuA/s1600/Venice_Italy8.jpg)
Venice
(http://www.uguest.com/magazine/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Florence-Restaurants.jpg) (http://www.firenzeclick.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/boccaccio-hotel-florence-009.jpg)
Florence Restaurants
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMm5k0v_hVc
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Give me one good reason you should not go GO?
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Give me one good reason you should not go GO?
I absolutely abhor flying, especially now with the airport shakedowns. The entire hassle of it all just ruins it for me. Prefer an early morning ride to Maine or New Hampshire, pretty much a loner type. Plenty of world in one's backyard to see.
If it weren't for the hassle and flying, I would be there pronto, but it kills it for me.
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(http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/content/csm-photo-galleries-images/photos-of-the-day-images/2014/0607/45/18566177-1-eng-US/45_full_900x600.jpg)
Rowers take part in the Vogalonga, or Long Row, in the Venice lagoon, Sunday. The annual boating event features a 30 km (18.6 miles) course starting at St. Mark's Square. Manuel Silvestri/Reuters
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Im renewing my passport at the moment, for a trip to Hong Kong and Macau next month so should have some nice fotos to share. I will probably visit Toronto in the next few months also and see some of the North East USA as well. Time and money will determine how far south I can venture though.
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Im renewing my passport at the moment, for a trip to Hong Kong and Macau next month so should have some nice fotos to share. I will probably visit Toronto in the next few months also and see some of the North East USA as well. Time and money will determine how far south I can venture though.
Enjoy, And your photos and thoughts will be most appreciated Walter. Folks tell me Hong Kong is utterly fascinating.
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Im renewing my passport at the moment, for a trip to Hong Kong and Macau next month so should have some nice fotos to share. I will probably visit Toronto in the next few months also and see some of the North East USA as well. Time and money will determine how far south I can venture though.
Well how perfectly delightful GO. Wally is planning a trip to the northeast of the US some time soon. I guess northeast includes your neck of the woods being Boston, Massachusetts. And now this lovely gentleman is even politicking for amnesty for you and for your return to the Diner. Don't you just love it? This from a guy who thoroughly believes in "favors" in return for compliments. I guess wanting your return to the Diner so much is a big big compliment and would certainly warrant an invitation for a get together and sleep over with you at your home. Maybe even Joe Pee Pee who had such designs on your wife **** could join you and make it a very convivial foursome. What say you? Aren't you even going to get together with this upright friend and offer him a place to stay and a few drinks after all he is attempting to work out for you?
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Maybe even Joe Pee Pee who had such designs on your wife **** could join you and make it a very convivial foursome.
Good morning Karpatok. Just finished reading your gracious posting and it brought to mind your fine Victorian upbringing. I did a little research on Victorian finishing schools to try and find out how a gracious, well mannered, elegant cultured Victorian Lady such a yourself, came upon such lovely and admired mannerisms and sweet writing skills. Most interesting.
Have come to the conclusion that I am much too crude and base a person to attempt to even answer a lady of such daintiness, sweetness, elegance and noble and cultured demeanor.
May I just bask in the sublime sunny atmosphere and spring like breeze of your presence and praise the Lord for you presence with my silence and awe?
Victorian Etiquette
Interested in what Victorian etiquette used to be?
Victorian roses (http://www.elegantwoman.org/images/victorian-manners-etiquette.jpg)
In Victorian times, having manners and etiquette were as important as being educated.
A person's etiquette and manners were associated with their status and wealth, as much as the car one drives or house one lives in today.
Victorian Etiquette has its differences and do not wholly apply today, however it is fun to explore the its ways, a refined way of living in a romantic era, where chivalry and gentility were never again as prized and honoured.
Basic Victorian Etiquette & Manners:
Rising to one's feet when being introduced, or when someone enters the room.
Ladies do a little curtsey and men greet with a bow.
Never turn your back on someone. When you have to remove yourself from the attention or presence of someone, to answer a door, look out the window etc, you always asked to be excused.
Manners were scrutinized by others and often a talking point in conversations and gossip.
The wealthiest and most educated of families greatly emphasised the excellence of manners in education and practice of their family members.
Victorian Manners
teresa-stanton / CC BY 2.0 (http://www.elegantwoman.org/images/Victorian-manners.jpg)
Emotions were often hid, especially if they were annoyed. It was habit to assume the best in people and situations. They take this etiquette so seriously their words sound empty because it was the opposite of how they felt. Perhaps that is how sacarsm originated. :)
In Jane Austen's novel, "Pride and Prejudice", Mr Darcy was trying to write a letter but was constantly interrupted by Mr Bingley's sister. She was very annoying with her barrage of opinions on what he should write. He simply said, (paraphrased) "Do allow me to convey your sentiments to my sister another time, I do not have room (in the letter) to do justice to your words."
How completely civil is that? I think most of us would probably go, "Shhh, I'm trying to write!"
Victorian Etiquette Manners To Increase Marriagebility
People without manners or bad manners were looked down upon. No one wanted to socialize with them.
Victorian Etiquette - The Key To A Victorian Woman's Future
Before finishing schools were implemented, the task of ensuring the education and training of their young daughters to become accomplished ladies often fell on the mother's shoulders.
They were important because that was a civil way to obtain husbands (by charming them with good manners) and to become good future wives. That was the complete future of their daughters - to gain a husband to take care of them for the rest of their lives. If a daughter remains unmarried, it would be the burden of her household to look after her forever.
Thus, Victorian Etiquette and Manners became one of the pre-occupation of females during victorian times.
It has always been ladies first. Men are trained in victorian etiquette to perform chivalry acts such as offering the lady a hand to go up her carriage. Ladies are never seen opening their own doors in the presence of a man, or carrying anything heavy.
It was rude to boast, brag or be pretentious. It was considered vulgar. One should always remain humble.
Grooming, Part of Victorian Etiquette
Victorian lady with beautiful comb (http://www.elegantwoman.org/images/victorian-etiquette-manners.jpg)
Grooming was of high importance.
No one came down to their breakfast in pajamas.
A lady's hair was always tied up in a chignon, in a bonnet unless she is still very young.
The ladies always dressed modesty, in good taste and in very feminine colours with beads, laces and ribbons.
It was frowned upon otherwise.
Victorian Etiquette Regarding Posture & Poise
Posture and carriage was of utmost importance.
Ladies were trained to carry themselves well. They studied their movements, working to be graceful from the way they lift their dress as they cross a step etc. Including, of course, how to stand, sit, walk. How to take the arm of a man escorting them to their next place of destination, eat, speak, greet, dance etc.
They were taught to have poise, to gesture gently and elegantly. To never be in a hurry or seem flustered.
Good posture and gracefulness were seen as part of a woman's beauty.
How To Be a Lady
Etiquette, 'How to be a lady' was considered part of an education of a female.
In Victorian times, the foundation of female loveliness is a natural beauty. That simply means that a woman's beauty must be natural, with fair and clear skin due to good health, rosy cheeks due to excitement and a zest for life, interesting eyes due to a sharp, educated mind.
Dress must be modest in feminine styles and colours are much preferred.
There was a greater distinction in dress between men and women in Victorian times. There was no room for ambiguity.
Victorian Etiquette - The Art Of Conversation
With less options of entertainment in Victorian days compared to modern day, the art of conversation was highly regarded. That was because of their way of entertaining and leisure.
Their social calendar would include, Afternoon teas, balls and dances, traveling to visit friends and family, going on walks, sports, watching someone paint or draw, hearing someone read or playing the piano. They often had company during those leisure activities. That is also who people develop friendships and acquaintances. If you didn't converse well, you probably would find yourself with less friends or social invitations etc. I suppose that is how they networked as well.
Their means of elegant entertaining also were in the forms of hosting teas, balls (parties) and dinners.
Ladies were judged by their manners on their upbringing. Their manners also reflected their class status, family's wealth and education. Even though, it wasn't always accurate. Interestingly, fine manners and etiquette was how shrewd ones deceived their way into marriages of wealthy partners, especially when they have a huge debt to repay. That worked both ways, men and women. So, the kind of manners a lady had were judged and determined the level of a man they would be entitled to marry. If they do not value their education of Victorian etiquette, there was a higher chance they might not get married or will not be able to "marry well".
Examples of these are echoed in Jane Austen's novels, 'Pride and Prejudice' and Sense and Sensibility.
Thank you for reading 'Victorian Etiquette'!
www.elegantwoman.org/victorian-etiquette.html
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Oh Golden Oxen, Thank you so much for your very onerous research into Victorian manners. Of course we all know that Jane Austen was writing during the last part of the 18th and unfortunately not during the Victorian period. But thank you for the great comparison to perhaps one of the foremost inventors of the modern novel even though I myself would make the comparison to George Elliot who wrote under a man's nom de plume even though her true name was Mary Ann Evans. And interestingly she was accused also of neglecting her domestic duties at home such as caring for her children and grandchildren. That is why she did most of her best writing in the wee hours of the morning so as not to take away anything from her dearly beloved family. So many kudos to you for your very uplifting tract. It is so sad though that your travelling companions are so bereft of that knowledge as you certainly are not. For in your great wisdom and knowledge and experience of the world, I am certain that you learned in true Victorian fashion yourself to never betray your true feelings nor let any of your high minded fellow travelers learn what you actually think of them.
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(http://passionforproperty.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/raven-taos-favourite-hong-kong.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rlqCJPjbnC0/TbjEtbLh8uI/AAAAAAAAB1w/o-s6kLjfVtk/s1600/hong-kong1+%25281%2529.jpg)
(http://travelandstories.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/hong-kong-4.jpg)
(http://yekaunghk.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/hong_kong_symphony_of_light.jpg)
(http://www.fondosdeescritorio10.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/hong-kong-1024x768.jpg)
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Well I see that Golden Oxen's very special Golden forum is all the Anti Diners have left in which to express their disapproving contrarian thoughts and dissent from the five foot shrimp vomiting over the airwaves below with his predictable semi paranoid party line. What else could be more normal than little sicko factions led by very sicko personalities revved up by plenty of alcohol and drugs, sporting their tiny ego satisfaction in now complete censorship. Even the old Gasbag as well as the phony shrink will be reduced now to urinating in the bright and pristine corners of Golden Oxen's sanctorum of Gold. Why don't we just name it The Island of SANCTORINI and quickly bring in all the available prostitutes from Macau and Hong Kong in order to get them operating in virtual sexuality to service all those who just can't get no action even if they PAY. Why hesitate a moment? Live for Defilement. Hurrah for Hedonism of the lowest kind. Vacations all around with no apologies. Enjoy to the utmost for soon this site too will probably vanish unless greater obeisance and scraping and bowing are not performed on the double. Here's to the Quadriviate ass lovers all. Personally I'm off to Tahoe for the rest of the summer. You sure can't beat those luxury hotels for supplying your every need from complete bikini waxing to gorgeously tanned Adoni. No need for those unattractive darkies left to having to either serve or PAY for their action. And then in the autumn, it's off to another place far far away. Wouldn't want to stick around for the invasion of immigrant Aussie trash and/or their progeny. All in good time, all in good time. How fortuitous that this has come about right at this very moment when I was hoping it would. Had to happen sooner or later. Much better now than later. Life is calling and WHO would desperately NEED to continue in this very trashy venue with all the lowlifes. But after all is said and done it was as the Gasbag would say,"a very valuable learning experience" about what evil lurks in the most unsuspected places. Fear not. I shall never return again. I will finally take that page out of Alan's book and make myself quite scarce. And what a great relief that will finally be to wash the rot and stink of ALL of DOOMSTEAD DINER off of my very being. BYE ALL I can't say it's been real.
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I will finally take that page out of Alan's book and make myself quite scarce. And what a great relief that will finally be to wash the rot and stink of ALL of DOOMSTEAD DINER off of my very being. BYE ALL I can't say it's been real.
It has been a terrible experience for many of us Karpatok, and quite an education.
Kindly drop in when you can and let us know how you are doing. You will always find the door open here.
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Always such a pleasure.
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7Htcw62r6U
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this is the view from my hotel window in hong kong. yes those are improvised bamboo balconies on the 25th floor no less. i tried to take fotos from the bus yesterday but you cant see anything but a flash reflected in the glass. the container port was biggest i have ever seen. i dont think i can describe the scale of the operation, except to say that out in the harbour giant container ships sit like little vessels in the hundreds.
edit. jpeg downloads not allowed, sorry chaps will need to find a workaround.
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this is the view from my hotel window in hong kong. yes those are improvised bamboo balconies on the 25th floor no less. i tried to take fotos from the bus yesterday but you cant see anything but a flash reflected in the glass. the container port was biggest i have ever seen. i dont think i can describe the scale of the operation, except to say that out in the harbour giant container ships sit like little vessels in the hundreds.
edit. jpeg downloads not allowed, sorry chaps will need to find a workaround.
Sounds interesting Walter. Sorry I don't know how to help with photos not working.
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Hi Walter, Thinking of you as I came across this photo in the news today. :D
(http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/content/csm-photo-galleries-images/photos-of-the-day-images/2014/0626/02/18653006-1-eng-US/02_full_900x600.jpg)
A woman poses for a photograph in front of a 3D painting at HK 3D Museum in Hong Kong. Tyrone Siu/Reuters
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How's it going Walter? Drop in for a second and say hello and let us know you are well and having a grand time in Hong Kong. ;)
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Hi GO
I got back on saturday after what were very interesting travels. I still need to figure a workaround for the fotos but I can relate some of my impressions. Anyone under about 30 years can speak english, but not well enough to have an in depth conversation and striking up conversations on trains that are very crowded, so people I spoke to were mostly other foreigners and mostly businessmen. But locals I could chat to were sales clerks and store managers in stores like jewelers where there they had more of the time and space and inclination to allow me to strike up a conversation. Gathering from the locals as well as the foreign business people operating american european companies out of china I gathered that we are led to believe a number of myths that are either outdated or just wrong.
People dont despise the government the way we do in the west. They think the federal/central govt and president is doing a geat job and are patriotic because of the progress they believe in. Their complaints are more about local level crooked county officials. The news story of the policeman who was killed by a mob was not accurate or representing anything that can be generalised. It was not a police proper but an equivalent of what you call TSA I think, but not organised federally but somethng locally. Some squad of thugs who clear out poor people for big business to do development. There are TV ads to try and educate people that they need to move out of old areas so they can be demolished and into the new zones of high rise buildings which are kind of far away.
Minimum wage is about $225 USD a week. Thats the going rate and rising, so what we are led to believe about a dollar a day or so is way out of date. People who think they can not shift to a domestic market away from an export market are wrong. There are Bentlys and BMW's all over the place and at least seven swiss watch stores for every seven-eleven. Shifting to a domestic market economy is seen as part of the solution to the pollution problem. I cant say I can see how that works, since producing the power and the products still causes pollution regardless of who buys it. There are TV ads talking about the plans to reduce pollution by the govt, I dont know how successfully it will work.
I went into china and returning by bus and by high sped jet boat, the place looks large like australia or usa on a map but much of it is mountainous and theres a shortage of flat and farm land. I think this is the real problem because that land is getting taken up with industrial devleopment, and that is all being modernised they say. The apple and nike stereoptype of slave labour is not representative because of already being forced to give better conditions and the workers want to meet and beat targets on their own to get bonusses. Thats what I have been told, and it seems legit since theres certainly a fetish for designer labels whether its in high end malls or street stalls selling cheap copies.
The girl in the foto above with the shark is typical of 99.9% of women there, all slim. Is it a better diet or a shortage of food or both is the question. They are definitely moving to importing more and more food, and how that will work out seems to be the real key to me. Keeping in mind they mostly own the land and the farms in other countries and continents they get the food from unlike us who just import the foods on the open market. Climate change, fresh water scarcity, etc seems to point to competition coming at some point for the food. Then again I look at many other places the same way including our own food supply and I come back to believing in self sufficiency being the only sure way to survive if and when supplies are strained.
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Hi GO
I got back on saturday after what were very interesting travels. I still need to figure a workaround for the fotos but I can relate some of my impressions.
Hi Walter, great to have you back and know the trip went well. You packed a lot of interesting information in your posting. It sure is wonderful to get some first hand honest info from a good reliable source. Your account was most informative.
The picture came out just fine, and you look to be in very good spirits. Nothing like a new place and fresh perspective to enhance one's knowledge and understanding. Thanks for the great posting. Welcome back Walter, GO
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some more fotos out of interest, now i have finally uploaded...
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some of the uses of bamboo, the park where u see the really tall bamboo growing also u see some eldder people doing ti chi and exercising. The little bamboo lengths in the tree with writing on are just outside a bhuddist temple.
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Great pictures Walter, had no idea how it permeated so much of the infrastructure.
In my ignorance, city boy me had always thought of bamboo as just another type tree growing where there was vegetation. These photos cast a whole new meaning to it. You live and learn.